Kiwi said...srizals writes; "I've always enabled the follow-up comments sent via e-mail. It won't matter if you delete your deceitful posts or not, Mr. K, no matter how fast you are."
No deceit intended Mr S, gave up after three attempts to post rebuttal, it was late and I was tired. Definitely no deletion by me, I suspect the system does not like long posts. I'll try again, this time in two halves - hope this will make you feel better.
No deceit intended Mr S, gave up after three attempts to post rebuttal, it was late and I was tired. Definitely no deletion by me, I suspect the system does not like long posts. I'll try again, this time in two halves - hope this will make you feel better.
Kiwi said...@ srizals...
Furthermore, in 1948, after militarily attacking the fledgling state of Israel; Jordan and Egypt, who between 1948 and 1967 occupied the West Bank and Gaza, respectively, never offered to surrender those lands to form an independent Palestinian state. No Palestinian organisation ever sought an independent state. No Arab country had even suggested its existence. An Arab Palestine has never been the name of any nation or state. 'Palestine' was a geographical term used only to identify administrative boundaries within larger empires, nothing more.
And since you have the temerity to mention "apartheid", it has been sixty years since 850,000 Jews were victims of "ethnic cleansing" in 10 Arab lands, where some Jewish communities had existed for 2,500 years. The number of Jewish refugees expelled from Arab lands exceeds Arab refugees from Israel by more than 100,000. Yet, the claims of these forgotten refugees, who were never compensated for their loss of land, homes, businesses and personal property, are rarely even mentioned.
Mr srizals, in summary, The ONLY time the area has been an independent entity was as a Jewish state. But don't let facts deter you in your pathetic hate fest. Are you aware of the racist apartheid conditions suffered by Jews and other minorities in most Islamic lands? Do you care? Please grow up and read some history.
Furthermore, in 1948, after militarily attacking the fledgling state of Israel; Jordan and Egypt, who between 1948 and 1967 occupied the West Bank and Gaza, respectively, never offered to surrender those lands to form an independent Palestinian state. No Palestinian organisation ever sought an independent state. No Arab country had even suggested its existence. An Arab Palestine has never been the name of any nation or state. 'Palestine' was a geographical term used only to identify administrative boundaries within larger empires, nothing more.
And since you have the temerity to mention "apartheid", it has been sixty years since 850,000 Jews were victims of "ethnic cleansing" in 10 Arab lands, where some Jewish communities had existed for 2,500 years. The number of Jewish refugees expelled from Arab lands exceeds Arab refugees from Israel by more than 100,000. Yet, the claims of these forgotten refugees, who were never compensated for their loss of land, homes, businesses and personal property, are rarely even mentioned.
Mr srizals, in summary, The ONLY time the area has been an independent entity was as a Jewish state. But don't let facts deter you in your pathetic hate fest. Are you aware of the racist apartheid conditions suffered by Jews and other minorities in most Islamic lands? Do you care? Please grow up and read some history.
Kiwi said...Part One:
Mr srizals, you're obviously a closet fan of the Qur'an based Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew (Article 7). As for your assertion that, "Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen", exposes your ignorance for all to see.
Mr srizals, a short history lesson - Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim. In 135 AD it was the occupying Romans under Emperor Hadrian, who arbitrarily changed the name of Judea to Palestine, as part of their effort to suppress the indigenous Jews. Nevertheless, Jerusalem was, and still remains the recognised capital of the Jewish people.
Palestine never has been a country, never at any time, ever. In 1920, after the collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the region of Palestine was designated a League of Nations Mandate, to be legally governed by Britain, where Jews and itinerant Arabs lived side by side, most often not in harmony, primarily due to religiously inspired Arab aggression. Then in 1922, two thirds of the Palestine Mandate was broken off by the British to become an exclusively Arab (Palestinian?) country, called Tran Jordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining one third, proposed establishing one Jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. The Arabs rejected the notion of any Jewish state, of any size.
Mr srizals, you're obviously a closet fan of the Qur'an based Hamas charter, which calls for the extermination of every living Jew (Article 7). As for your assertion that, "Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state since its indigenous inhabitant, that is not Jewish, is not recognised as rightful, original citizen", exposes your ignorance for all to see.
Mr srizals, a short history lesson - Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim. In 135 AD it was the occupying Romans under Emperor Hadrian, who arbitrarily changed the name of Judea to Palestine, as part of their effort to suppress the indigenous Jews. Nevertheless, Jerusalem was, and still remains the recognised capital of the Jewish people.
Palestine never has been a country, never at any time, ever. In 1920, after the collapse of the defeated Ottoman Empire, the region of Palestine was designated a League of Nations Mandate, to be legally governed by Britain, where Jews and itinerant Arabs lived side by side, most often not in harmony, primarily due to religiously inspired Arab aggression. Then in 1922, two thirds of the Palestine Mandate was broken off by the British to become an exclusively Arab (Palestinian?) country, called Tran Jordan, which later became Jordan. Of the remaining one third, proposed establishing one Jewish and one Arab state, which the Jews accepted and the Arabs rejected. The Arabs rejected the notion of any Jewish state, of any size.
Anonymous said...Mr eman said 8 January 2011 16:41
srizals
Don't back off MrHighetc for me - do it for you and for God.(Ha Ha Ha)
We have God's love!(You certainly do but which god) Unconditional.(With a few caveats perhaps?) We just need to open our hearts and free our minds from falsities.(Sounds like you have the stake, the rope and a pile of fagots and all that's missing is a lucifer?)
"Love one another as I have loved you." (Thanks for your kinda LUV?)/
Truly scared to thing what you would say IF you hated me??
You have brought tears of laughter to my eyes!!!
srizals
Don't back off MrHighetc for me - do it for you and for God.(Ha Ha Ha)
We have God's love!(You certainly do but which god) Unconditional.(With a few caveats perhaps?) We just need to open our hearts and free our minds from falsities.(Sounds like you have the stake, the rope and a pile of fagots and all that's missing is a lucifer?)
"Love one another as I have loved you." (Thanks for your kinda LUV?)/
Truly scared to thing what you would say IF you hated me??
You have brought tears of laughter to my eyes!!!
Anonymous said...Anonymous said...
Mr eman said 8 January 2011 16:41
9 January 2011 22:41
Be ashamed of yourself, kneel and pray for forgiveness for this hate filled post.
Mr eman said 8 January 2011 16:41
9 January 2011 22:41
Be ashamed of yourself, kneel and pray for forgiveness for this hate filled post.
Anonymous said...Anonymous 9 January 2011 22:46
Stop it or I will wee myself with laughter.
YKWIA
Stop it or I will wee myself with laughter.
YKWIA
AtilaTheHun said...A lunatic is on the loose on this blog, maybe he still think that he's the king with facy see-through craziness.
srizals said...Kiwi, since you used biblical time and history to support your arguments, allow me to present my case using your method.
1st. The Jews nowadays are said to be distant descendants of the Israelis who were brought to the land of Canaan from Egypt. They were slaves of the Pharaohs and fled from their masters without consent or buying their freedom legally then. As slaves, they have no right of owning anything and their belongings actually belongs to their masters. Since the distant descendants of the Pharaohs are Egyptians, with the evidence of pyramids and mummies,they have no right whatsoever of claiming the land of Judea as their own! It belongs to the current Egyptians by biblical rights and slavery laws up to before the US civil war I think. What say you, Kiwi?
2nd. I don't see any proof that the Canaanites waived their birth rights on the lands of Canaan, so the Palestinians as distant descendants of them, still have this 'birth and once governed the land' right, before the Israelis crossed the Red Sea and subdued them and became their leaders.
3rd. How many members were in the so-called League of Nations? How could they determine the fate of the piece of land in dispute? Shouldn't democracy be the rule of the day? Let say, the majority in Palestine at that time? Let's vote in the United Nations, without undemocratic veto power, who do you think they would favour as the rightful owner of Palestine? Shall we compare the nations acknowledging Israel and Palestine nowadays?
4th. The Hamas 7th charter, please quote it here with links. I can't find it to comment about it. I won't comment on something I do not have the knowledge of. Thanks.
5th. Almost all modern day nations nowadays were never even a country just like Palestine, Mr. Kiwi. The Great Britain was no exception either. The fleeing Jews from Christian lands cut them off to it, remember, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the support of armaments from the US and the stupidity of the UK, then. Sorry.
1st. The Jews nowadays are said to be distant descendants of the Israelis who were brought to the land of Canaan from Egypt. They were slaves of the Pharaohs and fled from their masters without consent or buying their freedom legally then. As slaves, they have no right of owning anything and their belongings actually belongs to their masters. Since the distant descendants of the Pharaohs are Egyptians, with the evidence of pyramids and mummies,they have no right whatsoever of claiming the land of Judea as their own! It belongs to the current Egyptians by biblical rights and slavery laws up to before the US civil war I think. What say you, Kiwi?
2nd. I don't see any proof that the Canaanites waived their birth rights on the lands of Canaan, so the Palestinians as distant descendants of them, still have this 'birth and once governed the land' right, before the Israelis crossed the Red Sea and subdued them and became their leaders.
3rd. How many members were in the so-called League of Nations? How could they determine the fate of the piece of land in dispute? Shouldn't democracy be the rule of the day? Let say, the majority in Palestine at that time? Let's vote in the United Nations, without undemocratic veto power, who do you think they would favour as the rightful owner of Palestine? Shall we compare the nations acknowledging Israel and Palestine nowadays?
4th. The Hamas 7th charter, please quote it here with links. I can't find it to comment about it. I won't comment on something I do not have the knowledge of. Thanks.
5th. Almost all modern day nations nowadays were never even a country just like Palestine, Mr. Kiwi. The Great Britain was no exception either. The fleeing Jews from Christian lands cut them off to it, remember, with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the support of armaments from the US and the stupidity of the UK, then. Sorry.
srizals said...Mr. Kiwi,
6th. a. The Kingdom of Israel was the kingdom proclaimed by the Israelite nation around 1030 B.C.E. - 1020 B.C.E., enduring until it fell to the Assyrian empire in 722 B.C.E. , how long would that be Mr. Kiwi?
b. 722-586 BC. The First Dispersion, the Diaspora. Jews are taken as slaves, or flee to Egypt Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.
c. 537 BC. Cyrus allows Shesbazzar, a prince from the tribe of Judah, to bring Babylonian Jews back to Jerusalem.
c. The Roman Empire destroyed the Temple about 69AD,renamed the country Palestine (rooted from Philistines), and the Diaspora began. Between that date and 1948, there was no Jewish State.
7th. Could you give the timeline of the claim of 3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites?
6th. a. The Kingdom of Israel was the kingdom proclaimed by the Israelite nation around 1030 B.C.E. - 1020 B.C.E., enduring until it fell to the Assyrian empire in 722 B.C.E. , how long would that be Mr. Kiwi?
b. 722-586 BC. The First Dispersion, the Diaspora. Jews are taken as slaves, or flee to Egypt Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.
c. 537 BC. Cyrus allows Shesbazzar, a prince from the tribe of Judah, to bring Babylonian Jews back to Jerusalem.
c. The Roman Empire destroyed the Temple about 69AD,renamed the country Palestine (rooted from Philistines), and the Diaspora began. Between that date and 1948, there was no Jewish State.
7th. Could you give the timeline of the claim of 3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites?
srizals said...Come on Kiwi, don't you go extinct on me now. I love Kiwi bird you know.
Kiwi said...Mr srizals, apologies, I've been busy earning a living.
Part 1
I refuse to be sidetracked by irrelevancies, and most definitely won't dissect your post line by line, however must challenge item 7 in particular - I did not claim '3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites.' What I actually said was, "Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim."
Mr srizals, we can cut to the chase here; there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither has there been any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage to support such claims. The present-day 'Palestinians' are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. Mostly they are immigrants; they have their own Arab states from where they came into the land of Israel, in large numbers, looking for work, about one century ago to contrast resurgent Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth.
Part 1
I refuse to be sidetracked by irrelevancies, and most definitely won't dissect your post line by line, however must challenge item 7 in particular - I did not claim '3,000 years of uninterrupted rule of the Israelites.' What I actually said was, "Jewish people have had a proven continued presence in the land of Judea (Israel) for more than 3,000 years, and have never relinquished their claim."
Mr srizals, we can cut to the chase here; there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither has there been any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage to support such claims. The present-day 'Palestinians' are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. Mostly they are immigrants; they have their own Arab states from where they came into the land of Israel, in large numbers, looking for work, about one century ago to contrast resurgent Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth.
Kiwi said...Part 2
Since you asked for my 'timeline', here it is:
1. Historical facts concerning nationhood and Jerusalem: Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two whole decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.
Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
Since you asked for my 'timeline', here it is:
1. Historical facts concerning nationhood and Jerusalem: Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two whole decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.
Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur'an.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
Kiwi said...part 3
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 750,000. The number of Jewish refugees evicted from Arab lands is estimated to be 850.000
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100 million refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Why is this?
Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the US state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the so-called Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations have initiated five wars and lost them all - Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. Hamas, and the PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given Gaza to the Palestinians, and autonomy to most of the ‘West Bank’, under the Palestinian Authority.
15. The West Bank, when under Jordanian rule: Jewish holy sites were desecrated, and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Moslem and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. Biased UN - The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 have been directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 have been directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. Why?
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. Why?
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Why?
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 750,000. The number of Jewish refugees evicted from Arab lands is estimated to be 850.000
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100 million refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Why is this?
Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the US state of New Jersey.
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the so-called Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations have initiated five wars and lost them all - Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. Hamas, and the PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given Gaza to the Palestinians, and autonomy to most of the ‘West Bank’, under the Palestinian Authority.
15. The West Bank, when under Jordanian rule: Jewish holy sites were desecrated, and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Moslem and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. Biased UN - The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 have been directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 have been directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians. Why?
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. Why?
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall. Why?
Oswin said...Kiwi above:
Thank you for that; you've got it just about covered, ta.
Thank you for that; you've got it just about covered, ta.
srizals said...Kiwi,
1. Your lengthy numbered explanation tries to outlaw the legitimacy of the native Arabs that were forced to flee in the fear of death, leaving their possessions, by using biblical proof. I used it too, but you simply brush it aside. Fine, now let see the birth of Israel. 1948, The forced death march of Palestinians from their homes by Jewish militia cleared the way for incoming Jewish refugees from the entire world.
True or false, Kiwi?
2. If the US, Australian and many more white citizens were banished by the natives of the countries now they are ruling, according to their thousand of years right, would Britain and Europe accept them back? The Palestinian Arabs are Palestinian! It's not the Arabs didn't want to absorb them, they want to return to their rightful home! Let say, I chased you away from your home after killing your siblings, and almost everyone you know since my great, great, great, great (30x more) ancestors were said to have been promised the land after being banish twice, unconditionally and they themselves came from Egypt, would you comply? Would you ask them to build their home beside yours or on top of yours, after it was demolished and you, running for your lives with nothing except the clothes you wore?
5. The destruction of a state is not the destruction of human lives, can't you get a simple statement like that? They have Israel for the sufferings and humiliations inflicted on them. The Muslims in the West are not a non-living illegal country, and yet?
3. The UN was silent since the Jews were no law abiding citizen of the world/UN anyway. What's the point? Maybe when they start to behave like one, the UN would be supportive of them.
1. Your lengthy numbered explanation tries to outlaw the legitimacy of the native Arabs that were forced to flee in the fear of death, leaving their possessions, by using biblical proof. I used it too, but you simply brush it aside. Fine, now let see the birth of Israel. 1948, The forced death march of Palestinians from their homes by Jewish militia cleared the way for incoming Jewish refugees from the entire world.
True or false, Kiwi?
2. If the US, Australian and many more white citizens were banished by the natives of the countries now they are ruling, according to their thousand of years right, would Britain and Europe accept them back? The Palestinian Arabs are Palestinian! It's not the Arabs didn't want to absorb them, they want to return to their rightful home! Let say, I chased you away from your home after killing your siblings, and almost everyone you know since my great, great, great, great (30x more) ancestors were said to have been promised the land after being banish twice, unconditionally and they themselves came from Egypt, would you comply? Would you ask them to build their home beside yours or on top of yours, after it was demolished and you, running for your lives with nothing except the clothes you wore?
5. The destruction of a state is not the destruction of human lives, can't you get a simple statement like that? They have Israel for the sufferings and humiliations inflicted on them. The Muslims in the West are not a non-living illegal country, and yet?
3. The UN was silent since the Jews were no law abiding citizen of the world/UN anyway. What's the point? Maybe when they start to behave like one, the UN would be supportive of them.
srizals said...5. One more thing, is it okay for your faith that in order to fulfill a prophecy, innocent lives are to be taken, with oppression and tyranny be the rule of the day? Should babies, children and the helpless be killed to fulfill god's word? Isn't blatant tyranny considered to be whatever is against good, which from it, we have 'God' in the English language?
Thanks Kiwi.
Thanks Kiwi.
